Ending Discussion [Spoilers]

[bradums]

Alright, for those of you who've seen the ending of Code Geass, you're probably aware that Lelouch was stabbed and killed by Suzaku (Zero) as part of their Zero Requiem - giving the world a universal enemy and therefore manipulating them all to stop focusing on hating one another and making himself the sole focal point of the world's hate. Upon his death and the reappearance of Zero, the world decides to work together now that the warmongering Britannia is gone and Zero is promoting cooperation.

Some might be aware of the fact that Sunrise has revealed that a post-series movie is in the works, but no details about what its about have been revealed. Rumors say that Lelouch is alive, while people flip out and scream that he can't be.

While I think the ending was tragically beautiful and extremely poetic, I firmly believe Lelouch is alive.

Here are a few points to my reasoning:

1. C.C. hints numerous times toward the end (during the battle between Lelouch and Schneizel) that she hasn't felt alive like that in a long time, and seems to be worried about her own life. She even ejects from her Lancelot Frontier and floats to safety when she could've easily sacrificed herself to slow Kallen down, just as she did with Jeremiah. Unfortunately, the fact that Lelouch still had his Geass after this point makes this almost irrelevant, since if he were made immortal, he wouldn't have his Geass anymore. Still, it shows that even the aloof, unafraid C.C. is anxious. Then again, if C.C. had sacrificed herself like she did before, she wouldn't be easily retrievable and would likely have been lost for quite some time - which wouldn't be good if Lelouch needed her Code, eh? *Shrug*

2. When Nunnaly touches Lelouch as he lay dying, she psychically catches glimpses of his past and what was going through his mind. If you recall, that's exactly what happened - though to a greater and much more chaotic extent - when C.C. and Suzaku came in similar physical contact. To me, that hints that Lelouch had become Immortal at this point, and was given C.C.'s Code after she was no longer in danger.

3. C.C. had already told Lelouch he could take her Code. Knowing Lelouch, who always plans ten steps ahead and doesn't account for his own death or failure, why would he knowingly ignore this when it fits so perfectly into his plans? It just seems logical that if C.C. wants Lelouch to have her Code, and Lelouch could use it to fulfill his Requiem and stay alive to see the impact, he would do so. C.C. despised her Code and wanted Lelouch to have it, and knowing that he had to publicly be killed, it makes sense that he would utilize the immortality.

4. The cart driver at the very end seems to have a similar build as Lelouch, and there are screens out there that I've seen that show similar eyes and hair underneath his hat, as well. Add that to the fact that C.C. says:

"I said that Geass was the power of the king, which would condemn you to a life of solitude. I think maybe that's not quite correct. Right...Lelouch?"

And after she's done speaking, she smiles and looks up (possibly either at the sky or toward the driver). When you think about this, she's noting that although she told Lelouch he would be forced to live a life of solitude, she jokes that she must not have been correct and asks Lelouch - looking up as she does so. In my eyes, this adds a bit of credibility to the possibility that Lelouch is still alive as not only does C.C. seem to speak to Lelouch, she's joking about how she was wrong about how he'd be solitary and looks up at the cart driver.

There are more points I thought up, but I can't remember them right now. If anyone has any thoughts on the subject, join in

[aden]

Well there is two things i would like to add as i fully believe he is alive also.

1. At the end when C.C. is on the wagon you will notice the mark of the code is gone from her forehead.
2. Lelouch's contract with C.C was so that she could die, and she can only do that if some one took her code. With Lelouch's feeling for her i doubt that he would leave her with a unfulfilled contract.

[michael]

I thought i would pitch in my two cents about that commt as well. While tristan has pointed out many good points in his belief that Lelouch is still alive i would like to add in another.

1) I dont believe that it has ever been stated that a Geass user had to be physicaly near the immortal to recieve Code. If we take into account that overlooked fact, we can easily conclude that C.C could have given Lelouche her Code at any given time or also say that Lelouch could have taken C.C`s Code at any given time. Added in with the fact that C.C`s Code was missing at the end of the series, helps to confirm that Lelouch might be alive. I add in might be alive because this theory does have some plot holes like most tend to do.

1)Charles and V.V along with the Nun and C.C were both close enough to take Code physicaly if it need to be done that way. Although, it was never shown on screen that the Code was passed through pysical contact because the passing of code might be a more metaphysical passing. The only reason i believe it was metapysical was beacuse it was never shown on screen that it was passed through touch like Geass and i just thought it would pass diffrently like the way Geass works diffrently than a Code.

But i digress to the original point...the theory i provided helps prove Lelouch is alive.

I personaly have never decided whether Lelouch is dead or alive.

[anderson]

I have evidence to support such a thesis that Lelouch is alive. A picture in fact that shows the face of the driver. Rejoice for you get to see Lelouch's mug once more with a mask on pretending to be a Chinese Federation peasant.

[rukison]

I've seen a similar image on the livejournal fan community a week after the last episode was aired.

Also, didn't the staff of code geass themselves confirm that lelouch was dead? Yea, I think I shouldn't have said that, but the truth is the truth.

Unless they lied and that screencap you have is from the blueray disk, and that lelouch is in fact alive. Although I'm still going for manip'd

[bradums]

Well, Fullmetal Alchemist ended with Edward confirmed as "gone for good", but they made a post-series movie regarding both brothers reuniting afterward

To that point, I read an article featuring snippets of an interview with one of the directors of Project Geass. I can't remember his name, but they were discussing the rumor that a CG movie is in the works and it was confirmed that a movie was, in fact, being worked on. When asked if Lelouch was going to be in the movie or if he was really dead, the director winked and skirted around the question by making a teasing comment along the lines of "But Lelouch is dead, isn't he?"

I think the evidence they installed that hints at Lelouch's survival and the logical sense it would make considering Lelouch's character traits and his options at the time show that they were at least leaving it open for Lelouch to still surprise everyone by living. Considering the whole "strategic mastermind" thing was his main talent and he had an easily accessible way to die for his Requiem yet still survive to see the aftermath, it would make sense.

Either way, I'm fine with it. On one hand, you get the epitome of a poetic death that sort of culminates the countless trials, sad deaths, and sacrifices made into the ultimate conclusion. On the other, you get that, but Lelouch is alive and the series continues for a movie - taking away a lot of the poetry in his death, but allowing another conclusion.

[majesticarchfiend]

Jul 13, 2009 8:18:21 GMT -5 @anderson said:

I have evidence to support such a thesis that Lelouch is alive. A picture in fact that shows the face of the driver. Rejoice for you get to see Lelouch's mug once more with a mask on pretending to be a Chinese Federation peasant.

You can do amazing stuff with Photoshop, huh?

Jul 13, 2009 9:57:58 GMT -5 @rukison said:

Also, didn't the staff of code geass themselves confirm that lelouch was dead? Yea, I think I shouldn't have said that, but the truth is the truth.

IIRC, Goro Taniguchi hisself said so - and he's the director.

While it would be perfectly in-character for Lelouch to've done that, I for one would like to think that he did die, because given that he's the biggest siscon in recent history, to me it makes no sense for him to entrust Nunally to Suzaku, who is mortal, if he himself was gonna be around and immortal. Oh well. Either way, it was a good ending IMO.

[lloyd]

Arch is right, that picture was faked, no matter how many times you watch the end, this scene doesn't appear. And i would have liked it better if Goro Taniguchi shouldn't have said a damn thing and left the ending ambiguous so people like us could argue and so that he could leave an open door for the continuation perhaps of the series.

It's unlikely that a continuation of Code Geass is going to come anyway. Sunrise HAS been planning possibly another season, either a prequel or Knightmare of Nunnaly. Hopefully, I'm hoping for NoN just because Euphemia gets to become Empress, Lelouch has actual manry muscles, and Nunnally gets fleshed out as a character.

Below: Manry Rerouch and a Euphemia that (gasp) doesn't die!


Below: "Because he's the hero Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight." -James Gordon, the Dark Knight

[bradums]

You can do amazing stuff with Photoshop, huh?

That picture's definitely Photoshopped, because - as you -said, I've seen the ending a billion times. Also, if that were Lelouch, he must've been deformed because his mouth is lower than his chin would normally be

IIRC, Goro Taniguchi hisself said so - and he's the director.

While it would be perfectly in-character for Lelouch to've done that, I for one would like to think that he did die, because given that he's the biggest siscon in recent history, to me it makes no sense for him to entrust Nunally to Suzaku, who is mortal, if he himself was gonna be around and immortal. Oh well. Either way, it was a good ending IMO.

I have a horrible memory, but I think it was Goro Taniguchi who said in an interview that they were planning on a Code Geass AMV, but he wouldn't give any details and he made an ambiguous remark in an answer to the question of whether Lelouch is alive or dead.

As for entrusting Nunally to Suzaku, it makes perfect sense. That was his entire plan throughout the series. It was a huge source of internal strife for him after discovering Suzaku was the pilot of the Lancelot, because he had - in that episode or the one prior - had a whole bunch of dialog (internal of external) about his plan to have Suzaku protect Nunally. And in addition, Lelouch couldn't protect Nunally. He died (whether he really died or not) in the public eye as a hated monster and the man who was about to execute Nunally.

Not saying that makes it anymore plausible that Lelouch is alive, I'm just saying that those two points of reasoning don't add up given the background behind them as told through the series. It was Lelouch's main desire to have Suzaku protect Nunally (which he still would as Zero), and Lelouch couldn't protect her because he isn't supposed to exist anymore.

[bradums]

I know I'm reviving a dead topic and double-posting, but I completely missed something that proves Lelouch is alive. My only concern was the ambiguity about how exactly he got a Code. I just assumed that C.C. gave him hers in order to complete his Requiem and reasoned that that's exactly why she suddenly cared enough to eject and survive during the battle as opposed to just kamikazi attacking an enemy like she always had.

But...he didn't take C.C.'s Code. He took it from Charles in the World of C. Charles had revealed that for a Code to be passed on, it must be taken from someone with a Code - by someone granted a Geass who had managed to obtain the final stage of Geass - and finalized by their death. When Lelouch was in the World of C, not only did he obtain the final stage of his Geass, he "killed" Charles by erasing his existence. When Charles (with the Geass sigil in his hand) grabbed Lelouch and Lelouch killed him, the Code passed to Lelouch. Upon his death at Suzaku's hand, the Code would've been activated, making Lelouch an Immortal along with C.C. at the end.

I'm sorry, but...while I think the poetic death was a touching masterpiece as far as endings go, I can't look at the evidence and say "Nah, he's dead."

Goro Taniguchi and the rest of the Sunrise crew made the art of giving subtle background hints a constant in the series, and they seem to have pointed out through a dozen signs that Lelouch obtained a Code and lived.

[Eve Neuschwanstein]

Okay, my only beef with him taking the code from Charles is that once you obtain the code, you no longer have a Geass. I don't know if you remember, but Lelou Geasses Scheinzel in the end. So had he obtained the code then, he wouldn't have been able to control Scheinzel. However, if he obtained it from CC, that would be more believable. To me anyway.

I don't know if he's dead, or if he's alive, but it's a great ending either way. If he's not dead, I would like someone to explain how his body managed to not be completely mangled and such after the rebellion charged in. You can claim immortality and such all you want, but if someone made of with his leg, he's going to be missing a leg. Seriously. XD

Also, the whole Nunnally seeing Lelou's events and stuff, I don't think she actually did. I think it was more of an anime thing. Like purely for the audience. If it was done in the similar fashion to Suzaku's, that would be one thing, but it wasn't. It was just something they added for the audience to be like, "ho snap" he's dying.

And you can't use the whole CC was talking to Lelou bit at the end for evidence. It doesn't qualify as CC is talking to Marianne virtually the whole series, both season one and half of two. Marianne wasn't the slightest bit alive, yet CC still talked to her. Yeah yeah, her spirit or whatever was transferred to Anya, but CC didn't even see Anya until R2 and even then she only saw her a little bit. However it does give way that CC can see and talk to ghosts. XD

Also, if CC did lose her code, it may have been to Charles. It's been a while since I've watched the series (I really want to watch at least R2 again), but if I recall Charles had initiated the process of removing her code to take it for himself. But again, it's been a while since I've seen it, so my memory is a little fuzzy with that episode. I can't recall if you see her code after that or not.

With her whole code not being visible at the end... I remember the scene, but her bangs cover her forehead as she has those massive anime bangs of doom. Because of that, unless her bangs are moved, you don't see her code. It saves money on animation costs too.

As I said, I don't if he's dead or alive, but keep those in mind too when coming up with evidence. Just make sure your evidence is irrefutable before you claim 100% that's he one way or the other. And ignore images from the intarwebs. Photoshop is so easy to use.

[kevin]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUhNAQokc-c&NR=1&feature=fvwp

This person I think has put everything we said into a video with proof.

[Eve Neuschwanstein]

Okay, I still can't believe the bit about CC "talking" to Lelouch at the end of the video. Marianne is technically dead throughout the whole series. Her soul just never passes over until Lelouch "kills" her and Charles.

Now the bit about having to die first before the code takes effect, that I totally missed since it's been a while since I've seen the series. Now it's completely valid to me that Lelouch could have taken Charles code. I have nothing else to argue that away, except maybe that the code must willingly be given to the receiver.

As for Nunnally seeing the images at the end via Lelou's hand, I'm on the fence with that one. It could be that she's actually seeing it, or that its just for the audience to look at. But then, CG has never been known for doing stuff just for the viewers to stare at. Anything on screen at least 1 other character can see it too.

You guys should be proud. I was totally against him being alive because it would suck all the deep plot out of the series, but if he is actually alive, it adds so much more to the complexity of it.

[kevin]

Aug 6, 2010 10:14:34 GMT -5 Eve Neuschwanstein said:

Okay, I still can't believe the bit about CC "talking" to Lelouch at the end of the video. Marianne is technically dead throughout the whole series. Her soul just never passes over until Lelouch "kills" her and Charles.

Now the bit about having to die first before the code takes effect, that I totally missed since it's been a while since I've seen the series. Now it's completely valid to me that Lelouch could have taken Charles code. I have nothing else to argue that away, except maybe that the code must willingly be given to the receiver.

As for Nunnally seeing the images at the end via Lelou's hand, I'm on the fence with that one. It could be that she's actually seeing it, or that its just for the audience to look at. But then, CG has never been known for doing stuff just for the viewers to stare at. Anything on screen at least 1 other character can see it too.

You guys should be proud. I was totally against him being alive because it would suck all the deep plot out of the series, but if he is actually alive, it adds so much more to the complexity of it.

You guys as in me ?

[Eve Neuschwanstein]

Well Tristan made me question some things, the video just kinda blasted those questions though. So yes, I guess you did. XD